Apple Park, a 175-acre campus in Cupertino, California, is set to open to employees in April. The campus will be powered 100% by renewable energy and will include 17 MW of rooftop solar panels. Energy sources will come from solar panels on the roof and supplemented by on-campus Bloom Energy Servers, which run off of harvested methane. Parking is built both underground and in two levels. Apple and the City of Cupertino have published revised schematics, floor plans, and renders of the “mothership”, packed with tons of amazing new details.
A large percentage of the roof is now covered in solar panels, and the dirt that comprises its massive pyramid of dirt is used for landscaping. The new campus will get 16 megawatts of power from rooftop solar panels, some of which will be affixed to the top. Apple’s new California Flats solar farm helps power its corporate headquarters, along with solar power installed on the roof of Apple Park. By the time of the 2016 report, Apple had installed 93.9 MW of solar over four installations.
Apple Park will be one of the largest on-site solar projects in the US, with the 2,300-acre IP Radian Solar project in Brown County, Texas, generating 300 megawatts. The building’s 17 megawatt rooftop solar array, one of the largest in the world, will provide up to 75 of the electricity supply during the peak hours of the day. According to Renewable Energy World, the campus will run entirely on renewable energy, generating 17 MW of solar on rooftops. Along with its new campus, Apple has 25 renewable energy projects in operation around the world that could generate 626 megawatts of capacity.
📹 Three Years Later – We might have a problem
Solar energy has always fascinated me. I can put black rectangles on my roof and get free power from the sun for 30+ years?
What solar panels does Apple use?
The Apple headquarters in Cupertino, California, a structure that has been described as “spaceship-like,” is powered by SunPower solar panels, reflecting the company’s commitment to 100% renewable energy. The 2. 8 million square-foot main building, colloquially known as the “spaceship,” is entirely covered by the solar panels, including the 10, 000-car parking structure. The facility was lauded as the nation’s most substantial solar commercial undertaking.
What type of energy does Apple use?
Apple has made significant progress in its efforts to decarbonize its value chain, with over 320 suppliers, representing 95 of its direct manufacturing spend, now committed to using 100 renewable energy for production by 2030. This move is part of Apple’s strategy to become carbon neutral across its entire business, manufacturing supply chain, and product life cycle by 2030. In October 2022, Apple urged its supply chain to decarbonize their entire Scope 1 and 2 emissions footprint, and notified suppliers that progress towards these goals would be a key criteria when awarding business. Since then, the use of clean energy in Apple’s supply chain has grown rapidly, reaching 16. 5 GW, up 20 over last year and more than 55 higher than 2022.
What are the new solar panels that work at night?
Researchers from the University of California Davis discovered night solar panels, or ‘anti-solar cells’, in 2020. These panels use heat or infrared light to generate electricity from the night sky. Stanford University scientists have developed prototypes that harness temperature changes between day and night to generate electricity. The first study connected a thermoelectric generator to one of these solar panels, allowing them to reach temperatures below ambient air temperature. These prototypes could revolutionize solar technology in the long run.
What are next gen solar panels?
Swift, a Silicon Valley-based startup, is working on commercially viable solar cells that layer traditional silicon with perovskites. This combination, which absorbs different sunlight wavelengths, allows solar panels to reach higher efficiencies and produce more electricity per panel. This could reduce costs and increase renewable electricity on the grid. However, perovskite tandem solar cells have been tinkering with the technology for over a decade without commercial deployment.
As a fickle solar material, perovskites are sensitive to water, heat, and light, and some researchers warn that if no perovskite products are produced within the next two to three years, the market may lose confidence in this technology.
Is Apple really 100% renewable?
Apple has announced that over 300 global suppliers, representing over 90% of its direct manufacturing spend, have joined its Supplier Clean Energy Program, committing to 100% renewable electricity for all Apple production by the end of this decade. The program includes various color options for Apple Watch Series 9, including pink, starlight, silver, green, midnight, and midnight aluminum. The Apple Watch Ultra 2 has various color options, including orange/beige, green/gray, blue/black, blue, olive, and indigo Alpine Loops.
Carbon reductions are calculated against a baseline scenario, including no use of clean electricity for manufacturing or product use, Apple’s carbon intensity of key materials as of 2015, and Apple’s average mix of transportation modes by product line across three years. The breakdown of U. S. retail packaging is by weight, with adhesives, inks, and coatings excluded from calculations.
A Grid Forecast will be available in the contiguous United States, and 50% or more of all carbon neutral products by total weight are planned to be shipped using non-air modes of transportation, like ocean freight, from the factory to their next destination over the lifetime of the products. All cobalt content claims are based on a mass balance allocation.
Do Tesla solar panels work at night?
Solar systems are connected to a home’s electric panel, and at night, the system is deactivated, allowing the home to be powered by the grid. The electric utility’s meter is responsible for recording the energy usage. The Powerwall system is capable of storing surplus solar energy, which can then be utilized at night to support self-powered homes. In the event that solar power is not utilized, it is redirected to landfill sites or other energy-efficient sources.
What is the latest version of solar panels?
The most efficient solar panels for 2024 include the SunPower Maxeon 7, which has set a record of 24. 9 efficiency in lab settings, compared to 24. 1 in real-world conditions. The Maxeon 7 445-watt solar panel is the most efficient overall, surpassing older models like the Maxeon and Canadian Solar. The National Renewable Energy Laboratory confirmed the record-setting efficiency metrics, which translate to about 24. 1 in more realistic settings. However, the Maxeon 7 won’t be available outside of Europe until late 2024, meaning it won’t be part of any rooftop solar system currently being installed.
Experts advise considering the total cost of a solar panel system, not just the individual panel specifications. Small jumps in efficiency might not be worth major increases in project costs, especially considering the price will multiply based on the size of the solar panel system. Although solar tech continues to improve and installation costs are trending down, highly efficient panels may be more suitable for limited space, such as a small roof or a lot of shading.
In summary, the Maxeon 7 is the most efficient residential solar panel for 2024, with its record-setting efficiency metrics and affordability making it a top choice for residential solar panel installation.
What is the newest solar panel technology for 2024?
In 2024, solar panel technology trends will focus on improving efficiency, storage technology, bifacial solar panel adoption, and integrating artificial intelligence and blockchain technology for system management. These advancements will enhance the solar industry’s efficiency, cost-effectiveness, and application. Blockchain technology, a distributed digital ledger system, will facilitate secure, transparent, and decentralized energy trading in the solar industry with virtual power plants (VPPs), allowing for more efficient and reliable transactions without intermediaries. This will lead to a positive impact on the solar industry.
What is the new technology of solar panels?
Perovskite solar cells offer a cost-effective and efficient alternative to traditional silicon cells, enhancing solar power accessibility. Transparent solar panels, particularly for BIPV, are a significant innovation. The solar energy industry is poised for a revolution in 2024, with advancements in PV technology setting the stage for a transformative era. Tamesol, a European leader in photovoltaic panel manufacturing, is a key player in this revolution.
Their commitment to producing high-performance TM Series® PV Modules, including innovations like HALF CELL and HC BIFACIAL, aligns with the latest technology and high-quality components, driving the solar energy sector towards a more efficient, integrated, and sustainable future.
What are the best solar panels?
The top 10 solar panels compared are SunPower M series SPR-M440-H-AC92, REC Group Alpha Pure-R 430 W92, Panasonic EverVolt HK EVPV Black 410-Watt92, and Maxeon Solar TechnologiesMaxeon 3 BLK-R 420W88. 25. SunPower offers the best and most expensive solar panels, with a 25-year warranty. Choosing the best solar panel for your home can be overwhelming, but it’s easier than you might think. Choosing a quality solar installer is crucial, as they are likely to install quality solar panels.
Which solar panel technology is best?
Monocrystalline solar panels are the most efficient, offering 15-22 real-world efficiency ratings at a higher price range. Polycrystalline panels are more affordable but only provide 12-17 efficiency. Monocrystalline panels have greater durability and can last up to 40 years. The typical payback period for solar panels is six to 10 years. Using more efficient panels increases energy production, reduces bills, and creates long-term savings. Incentives like the Federal Solar Tax Credit can further lower the payback period.
📹 How to Choose the Best Solar Company
— Links — Sunvoy: https://sunvoy.com/ SunCMR: https://www.suncrm.solar/ Solar Surge will teach you all about being energy …
Living in South Africa we have an abundance of sunshine but unfortunately we sit with up to 12 hours a day without power from our national power utility due to government corruption and criminality. So about a month ago we got fed up with the incompetence and installed a hybrid solar backup system which charges batteries during the day and run all electrical loads inside the house. During night time we use the stored energy. The cycle remains even when rolling blackouts (aka Loadshedding) is active. It has been amazing seeing the system at work and keeping our lights and appliances on at all times. Even now that it is rainy season in Cape Town we only use about 25% electricity from the grid (when it is available). During the day we run everything from dishwashers, air conditioners, washing machines, vacuums, etc. all for free. We even use the sun to heat up our water in our solar geyser and have installed a gas stove to boil water, make tea, cook, etc. as gas is fairly cheap here.
I’ve had solar for 9 years and I tell people they are “boringly predictable”. But boringly predictable doesn’t get the clicks! Nice effort spicing up the fact that your panels saved roughly the same amount of money each year and that you are where you predicted you would be. Seriously, looking forward to the article for year 4!
Your article specifically got me to go with a 13.86kw system from solarwholesale and last year I produced 17,336kwh and this year is looking to beat that easily based on the last couple of months. It was very sunny April and May so far, I sent back out over 700kwh to the grid last month. Couldn’t have been happier with my decision that you helped me make, so THANK YOU.
You have to separate ‘heat’ from ‘sunshine’ in the summer. Sunshine is good, heat is bad. You will lose 1% of module efficiency for every 2 degrees C in temperature rise. That’s why you’ll likely hit your annual peak power output day in the late Spring – good hours of sunshine and not yet hot. Anyway, great to see your system is running well for 3 years with no maintenance issues, those little employees are working hard for you!
Hey Jerry Rig … I have watched your tear downs on apple phones for many years… you definitely have a great style of presentation.. The one thing that really hooks me more to your website is your love and understanding you have for Cambry… ( hope I spelt that right ) what an inspiring couple … Fabulous ❤❤❤
Dude you got a huge yard…. Get a set of ground-mount bifacial panels for winter. Easy to install. Can set in perfect direction, and no need for power optimisers or micor-inverters on the ground-mount system, as no need for rapid shutdown there! Also they’re easy to clear snow off of, and the snow reflects back on them in a big way all day, making them BY FAR the best solar setup for winter!
Nice article. One thought many people forget about when installing solar in a warm weather area with an effective air gap is the umbrella effect. Basically the solar panels act as an umbrella shading the house keeping your roof cooler and that heat is not transferred into your attic and into your living quarters, which requires you to use your A/C more. As a result, you save some money by not using your A/C and the wear and tear over time, which may make your unit last longer. My 2 cents…Have a nice day. Update: I live in Central CA, the roof solar was installed in 2008. We bought the house in 1996 and replaced the furnace & AC unit in 2024, 28 yrs. We definitely got lucky that our unit lasted that long. We also live in a warm climate area. I think the AC is used more than the furnace. But, I believe the solar shade does help keep the roof cooler.
As a solar owner and electric car owner, there are other factors to consider toward savings. The offset in fuel savings vs gasoline is likely much higher than the savings just on your electric bill. Your shingles will also last much longer with your panels absorbing all the abuse. The downward trend is likely just due to weather. Keep us updated.
Zack, I also underperformed December (also in Utah, Layton area). I have 25 panels and have had them about 2.5 years. December 2022 I only generated 165 kWh, that is down significantly from December 2021 were we generated 295 kWh. I think you’re right about the dark snowy weather limiting their productivity.
In February this year I installed my own 8 panel system with 4 panels on each string using a growatt 3kw gti ..the whole system was £1268 all in ..I’m an industrial electrician so didn’t need outside labour..so far the figures look like full payback in less than 18 months and that’s in the south east of the UK. I believe the future of financially viable solar lies in smaller 2.5kw systems with very short payback times.
Jerry, I have an idea for you. When I was in college we did a solar race car. During the race we used a pump up sprayer full of ice water to spray the panel and cool it off. When we did the power spiked substantially. If you could cool the panels with say… air gap or a water cooling loop it might increase your power generation considerably. The question is would the pump mechanism use up all that extra power you would generate.
Thanks for the update. We bought an older home last year. Were still doing all the basic upgrades. When I’m ready to go Solar, I’ll definitely be reviewing your article’s and all the links you provide. Thanks for all your postings. I don’t watch them all, but the Solar and Electric Hummer defiantly peek my interest. Thanks Again. Randy
Our solar projections are for 7 months out of the year here in MA. The winter months are a bonus. By the time they are paid for, your panels will either be inefficient compared to new technology or not producing much. Leave solar to the big commercial projects, unless you’re installing large ground arrays on your property. It’s not if your roof leaks…it’s WHEN it leaks that matters.
I’m in north west Indiana. My January was down to about 273kWh. Normally I make 700-900kWh a month. This was my first winter with solar, but has me rethinking if I’m comfortable trying to invest in a battery system for full off grid. At least in my area, my net metering credits are 100% too which is awesome. Only downside is a flat monthly fee to be grid connected (which to be fair, I fully agree with and support).
I live in a sunny area with little rain. I built this system over time and expanded it, and everything paid for itself in less than 2 years. Now my electricity bills are down $300/month in the summer! Solar has been amazing for me, but I like to tinker and learn. And the most expensive part of anything is the labor. This isn’t grid tied either, no real incentive to get that done for me but it does have an automatic transfer when we do get clouds for a week or so, but I change my use habits. Which is another bonus to playing with your own energy production, you get to see how much you waste. It really does depend on where you live, so get your expectations right. It’s really easy to find out if it would be a sound investment for your area. Just do some research. That said, all utility companies wait until things go really wrong then pass that cost to us. I don’t think our infrastructure is getting better, it’s being neglected. So, get a backup power plan that makes sense. Solar, get and battery bank, just get something.
I’ve noticed the roofing to your house does not have any heat ventilation, you should definitely look into installing attic vents and vents to draw air in. This might make it colder in the winter but if you install radian Reflective Insulation roll on ceiling studs & foam boards in between your energy usage on A/C will be a lot less. It will be less strain on your A/C unit. Also you can never go wrong washing the solar panels often less dust = more power and you should get your return on investment faster than the speed of light lol
I am excited to say our solar panels are saving us even more here in California! I have only 1 regret and it is I was talked out of getting a battery for the system! I know that I am just not able to get one on my own, I have read up on getting it done even watched articles of people installing them. I simply don’t have those abilities sitting in my wheelchair! I don’t have the funds either. Have you considered a battery for backup and night electric consumption? I hope you and your family are doing well. Say Hullo to your beautiful bride and boy!
Those numbers seem pretty good to me. My 5kW system has been up for 4 years, for the 3 full years it’s been up it generated 8412/8697/8428kWh. I’m in Sydney, Australia, so about 5° closer to the equator, fairly negligible difference. No snow here, but we had the bushfires in 2019/20 that blanketed the sky for weeks in summer, and the last 18 months we’ve had record rain and statewide flooding. Hoping to crack 9000 one of these years, fairly unlikely this year though. Our system was a lot cheaper, Chinese panels/inverter, been pretty good so far. Only washed once, need to give them a good clean but even dirty they’re doing pretty well.
Solar panels are indeed great investment. I am from North India and I installed solar panels of total 5.5kWh (total investment was US$3500) in September 2022. From Sept 2022 till Mar 2022, I only got electricity bill of 40$ which earlier used to be roughly 120$ a month. Hoping the system to break even my investment in 3-4 years.
I’d love to do solar on our roof at some point. Although we’re in a townhouse so we may not have enough roof space to generate enough electricity. Especially if we’re looking at electric cars in the future. This year though we’re focusing on the garden which is starting off pretty good. Hope you’re able to update on how your garden is doing this year. :3
I appreciate the follow up article, I am also in Utah so the info is very helpful to me and my decision making. Later this year I hope to be pulling the trigger on a DIY kit, anything you wished you had done differently in your setup that I could learn from? Thanks for the help, and keep up the good work. articles are very enjoyable and right up my alley for sure!
The United States is nearly $32 trillion in debt. While the idea of solar is wonderful, we need to figure out ways to make the technology more affordable without the federal government footing part of the bill. Tax credits = tax payer dollars paying for it (or in reality, just adding to the national debt). The financial strain we’re putting on our future generations is far worse than the benefits solar will bring over the same period. Of course it’s not just solar receiving ‘tax credits,’ but if we want to start chunking away at our debt, credits like these will have to end as we get back to the bare basics of what our government is intended for. It’s just unfortunate our elected officials are tone-deaf and spend-happy, so we’ll likely continue on this downward spiral until we collapse.
It is about $0.09 per KWH here in Virginia. Roof can reach 160 degrees. I suspect it will be to much of a stress to install it here. Yearly electric bill for this 1,800 square foot house is under $1,000. I do wish for all the gas cars to be removed. Our county gets 90% of its power from 2 or 3 jet turbine engines and 10% of the power comes from a solar panel field.
Here in South Africa, we have government-sponsored rolling blackouts (loadshedding) leaving us without power for 6-10 hours per day. We installed solar a couple of months ago, with 16 x 545W panels, an 8kW inverter, and 3 x 5kWh batteries. We run mostly (excluding oven) off the inverter and batteries, and the sun and the grid, when needed, keep the batteries charged to various levels. So far it looks like we’re getting about 700kWh per month (we’re in fall/autumn here). The total cost was about $11500. We can’t feed back to the grid yet, so we won’t make money, but the convenience of actually having power all day is totally worth it.
You present a very rosey picture for solar panels on the roof, or mounted more practically near the ground level. The catch is the panels are easily damaged and the production falls off after just a few years, normally. Just ask anyone that has had hail storms, trees falling on the panels, and such things. You can expect storm damage in the near future. Maybe you haven’t noticed there are folks talking about how the sun is very active and has been damaging all sorts of things more so than usual. They also talk about how the weather is connected to solar activity and is expected to be a bigger issue than it has been in recent memory. I don’t think it will be possible for your expected profit of $3k by the time you are 70 years old. Most, if not all of your solar panels will need replacing by then, or sooner. Of course you don’t have to take my word for any of this.
It takes way more panels than you think. When allowing for rain fade and cloud fade and snow and or ice fade. I have seen 19,000 watts of panels go down to 2,000 watts for days on end as it rained or was extremely cloudy in South East Texas near the Gulf of Mexico Then if you have batteries you need to charge them back up during daylight with the same bad conditions and try to run the house load with 95° F temps outside. So size big, get lots of battery storage and take very little from the grid. Also consider a stand alone system for air conditioning and heating if you have electricity. Put easy start kits on all your appliances such washer, dryer and fridge and dishwasher. The start wattage on these is very high. Just throwing out what I seen in 3 years in on my system. My system 19,450 watts of Panels and only 14.4 kwh of storage. I need more storage. Well nice articles Thanks for sharing with us solar people out here.
Warning————–When deciding on Solar panels, be careful on how you finance panels and converter equipment. Do NOT finance or take a loan or lease from the Solar panel company as you will NOT collect any federal tax rebates and in many cases not get benefits of selling power back to the power company. The leasee or Solar power company gets the benefits and federal tax rebates. Pay cash, get a home equity or bank loan. Do your research before getting Solar panels.
In my area you install would fail inspection. Must have a 24 or 30″ wide party free of panels from roof peak to roof edge so fireman can axe thru roof. They are not allowed to axe thru solar panels. The narrow walkway at far right side does provide a wide enough access area because a lot of it is over the roof extending off side of your house.
I might have commented on this before but one of your installers is putting their whole body weight on the centre of the panel. This will cause fractures in the cells that over time will worsen and shorten the life expectancy of the panel. There is no need to put body weight on the centre of the panels when fitting them, irrespective of the slope of the roof.
just had my solar installed in 2022 around end of Feb. so missing January and most of February, my 2022 energy production was around 6.7mWh. best investment. but this year, we’ve had more rains and cloudy days, but with 2 extra months of production than last year, I’m expecting about the same amount.
I’m in Stockholm, Sweden. Quite a lot further north of this. I have a 16kWp system. December 2023 my system generated all of… 18kWh. The entire month. Peak month production so far in a summer month, 3300kWh in a month. We get approx 1000kWh per year per kW of PV panels, even with the long summer days.
The first 2-3 years has the most fall off. Use an air compressor to get fresh snow off of your panels. Use a venturi tip on a long pole. Doesn’t work well on not so fresh snow. You can make a long extension out of pvc or copper. If its metal, just put a pool noodle on it. So you dont whack the glass.
One thing to consider is usage. If you are using more power than the solar can provide you’ll see a drop in how much your saving. If you notice a huge loss in production, have someone look to see if anything is shading your modules. If they are covered more than the expected amount or if something harmed your modules, you might need to replace some.
Hej, Materials Engineer here. I am not a Scientist by any chance. Just a graduated engineer. But based on what I have read so far, the reason for the weather fluctuation is something related to El Nino effect. It will stay for next 1 or 2 years also after that, it will try to stabilize itself which will result in better weather. By the way good work. Have been perusal your website even before I started my bsc, so around 5 ro 6 years ago I guess. Keep up the good work . Good luck
I like your takes on everything. You obviously invested a lot into this and instead of only focusing on the good things. You explained the bad ones too. You don’t seem to be justifying this purchase either by only highlighting the good parts. Allowing someone who is serious about getting their own see what owning a system really is like.
We have different weather in South Africa (currently winter is nearing it’s end soon in july), but we have power supply issues that we term load shedding aka rolling blackouts. For us the benefit of a solar panel is there when there is no power from the grid. So irrespective of saving, that time is like a party for those that have the means to panels, inverters and batteries down here.
You should have mentioned that PV panels are now more than x2 cheaper than 3 years ago. Also, 180kwh for December is a lot in Lithuania. Last year my 10kW setup produced 30kwh for December and January combined! But no crocodile tears from me, since mine already paid off, it’s half the cost compared to USA.
Was considering solar for my home here in Arizona. I used the calculator my utility company offers and it turns out my electricity bill isn’t high enough that I’d make my money back. Now, I live by myself and I keep the AC at about 80 during the day and 83 during the night, but to be told that getting solar panels wouldn’t make sense for my usage was surprising.
My brother’s farm is 40~45% powered by solar and about 10~12% (i haven’t looked at the graphs in half a year now) powered by water, as we have a tributary portion of a river right by the property, and with that, a power wheel installed. He uses some of that hydro power to power the pumps that cool the solar system. Without it, the system wouldn’t work anywhere near as good. Solar panels need to be cooled. Wind is a solution, but that works only so well in some areas. For example, we tried for some years to use wind power, but it’s an erratic affair. Some weeks, it’s good, some weeks nothing happens.
1. Sunny days give more energy, check the previous years to this one. 2. A healthy battery stays healthy if its charged till 80%, you dont need to charge them to a 100% not talking the truck, talking the ones home. 3. Rain doesnt clean the solar panels, if that were to be true, you wouldnt need to wash your car.
I have Solar Panels for the same amount of time in FL. They have been great. Just one thing they, Solar Companies, will not mention is that they can break from objects falling on them be it a rock, ball, hail, etc. If that happens it’s up to you to get it fixed. The warrenty does not cover breakage. So depending where the panel is located, they may have to move other panels to get to the broken one, it could cost you $1000 to $1500 to replace it. Also, its a pain in the ass to get the solar company to come to fix just one panel. I know from experience. Had a bird drop a claim shell on one of mine. Worked for a while, but the crack grew and the productivity of the cracked solar drop below 50%.
I hope to get some in the future, but installed next to house on unused slope. Easier cleaning and maintenance, shade underneath, no holes in roof, easier roof and gutter maintenance and repair. The roof sounds like a horrible idea to me, although the most practical available space for most urban applications. Thanks for the update!
When I asked my friend in Virginia he said he paid closer to $40K with only about $10K in tax credits and that was with zero batteries which he said would have come close to doubling the amount. Not sure why the difference is so high in cost, I don’t believe his house is any bigger then yours. Either people in Virginia are getting hosed or there has been some serious price hikes in the solar panel market around here.
A number of things could be effecting the production of energy, . Dirt or dust on panels, . Heat, . Cloud cover or pollution in the atmosphere . Basic maintenance Normally I check these lists off before I start looking in to the panels themselves maybe it’s something to do with them on terms of manufacturing flaws
Personally, I think your solar panels are working just fine. We paid off our 7.5 KWh system with a cost of $14K. Your panels are producing almost exactly whay ours do in Denver, CO. Forget finding any scientists who really know what is going on with the climate. Weather changes and so does the climate, ALWAYS.
On my way to install 10KW system by next week. Its costing us 470000INR(5600 USD) approx. With the rising electricity prices and consumption especially during this peak summer solar is the best way. My breakeven period should be about 4 years. And having a ongrid system also gives us a few extra bucks when we produce more than what we consume, and the surplus is pushed into the electric grid.
Only two things can really hurt solar instillation imo, batteries if you don’t sell back to the grid. Replacing those is insanely expensive and has to be done fairly often, about every 5 or so years. Or damage/maintence if you live in an area that forces you to take more care of your panels. Anything from high winds/hail/fallen leaves that requires you to spend more money or time is always bad. A third possibility is changes in tax credits/power company policy. The power company buying your excess power is not a given, some states are lowering the amount they pay for the power, others stop accepting it entirely as they have too much during the day and not enough at night. A lot of solar set ups also would barely be a possibility without the tax credits, which will likely run out as more and more people get solar.
I’m not against solar but one factor not usually discussed is the intitial capital outlay. If you were to invest that $8234 and earned 5.4% interest in 3 years you would have $9678. Just something to think about if considering solar. I think it will eventually reach a tipping point to make solar more attractive.
6.5 years isn’t bad. Dynamic DSLR wanted to sell me solar panels for $50k with a loan of $54k at 7% interest. I paid a little over $2100 for electricity last year. I wasn’t going to take out a loan and pay over $3500 in interest on solar panels that may or may not entirely offset my electric bill. It just did not make financial sense. If I could do something similar to what you have done I’d be in.
it is interesting to watch updates on systems that have been online for a year or even better more years. i have a small DIY system that does not have the fancy monitoring software( its off grid) so i only have my reduced electric bill to see the cost savings. I think differently about the money spent on solar. My 5k sitting in the bank made nothing for the last two years while the 5k spent on a solar system has given me a monthly income to put toward my electric bill and provide some sense of power security when there are problems with the grid.
The science part is easy. So rate of diffusion is passive movement from high concentration to low concentration. This includes heat. Hot or cold. The greater the difference. The faster the transition. So… What does that mean. The spring and fall “autumn” temperatures will swing more. Summers will be hotter and winters will be cooler. It’s more complicated than just that but that’s the basics
Where I live, they want $30K to do a solar setup like yours and for a lot of older homes, the city requires a new 200 amp panel any time the service changes. I had estimates that were between $28K and 38K, and solar just did not make any sense. I used the money to buy utility stock and it was a much better financial decision.
I payed for my 5 kWp Setup 4.500 Euro in April 2024. One Year later I made 1.221 Euro (energe is expensive in europe). PV-Panels a re much cheaper now. If you buy today a 5 kWp Setup, you can write it off within 18 months – at least in germany. My small system generates electricity for around 22,000 km per year (Ioniq 5). If there were systems that cost 2,000 euros and generated enough gasoline for 22,000 km per year, EVERYONE here would have one
It is awesome to see the numbers over in america. That’s crazy. Here in Germany a 16kW Solar system with a 10kWh battery (way too small to charge an electric car and pawer a heat pump over night) costs around 35.000 dollars to install. A heatpump for a 50 yesr old house costs around 18.000 dollars. To buy a 4 year old tesla ModelS i have to pay 60.000€ compared to a equally old 3l Diesel wagon for 40.000€. Price for power from the grid is currently 42ct/kWh (eastern germany) (western and southern is around 30 to 35 ct/kWh). My 2800kWh/year from the grid cost me 1600€. if you produce more electricity with your solar than you can use it gets delivered to the grid for 18ct/kWh. Gas is currebtly 1,65€/l Diesel 1,58€/l. So you can say that electrification is something for rich people
I reduced our electricity consumption by more than 80% with just four 100 watt panels. How? I bought a 600watt plug & play GTI (grid tied inverter) off Aliexpress. Has full island protection etc etc No setup costs, no bureaucrats & networks clipping tickets . You cannot use these with smart meters though. Total cost of my set up was around $1000 USD. Note: we do have gas for hot water & hob cooking.
I always see that everyone who does solar panel ROI does it the same way. In reality, if you had the $8200 and invested it with an average annual return of 8%. It will be worth more than $13500 after 6.5 years. So this is essentially an overestimation. And your estimated saving of $35000 after 30 years pales in comparison to the same $8200 compounded at 8% annually for 30 years. That comes out to over $82,500. If you remove the principal of ~$8200 that is more than DOUBLE the return on investment. (I am not saying that solar panels are a bad idea, they are great, but these calculations are essentially misinformation.) You should choose solar panels because they are a great way to be self-reliant and not depend on the power grid for your needs and the environmental benefits too. But solar panels are NOT an investment (if they are, they are a really bad one).
if you are looking to increase your panels efficiency, you could always consider adding a heat exchange system to lower the temperature of the system. Whether it’s to a pool/hot tub or to a reservoir for a heat exchange unit in the house, basement, garage or shed it can be extremely efficient depending on the local climate.
So if you all want to hear how crazy this can be. I live in an area where power is 42 or 50 cents per KWH. Just went full solar and I am saving $500-600 per MONTH. Yeah, payoff time is a bit shorter. Total lifetime savings for 25 years are estimated as (without inflation) $150k on a 10k investment. 15 to 1 is good in my book!
I don’t know about it as an investment and to save money unless you finance it with very low rates. If you invest you could get way better returns over a period of a life time if you made a one time payment. Specially if you get any power bank with the system. Maybe it gets better over time, maybe it doesn’t, time will tell. I believe the biggest point of going solar, wind and hydro is the fact we actually care and want our independence and sovereignty for as long as possible.
i work in the solar industry and idk if its just the state i live in but if your gonna do it you’ll save so much doing it yourself. big issues ive seen is unlicensed electricians touching things they shouldn’t (ask anyone touching your breakers or electrical if they are an electrician but doesnt apply to people touching the micros or actual panels), salesmen that pray on old people that don’t even use enough power to warrant it and issues with communication with the companies that install to get services done. be very careful with the company you go with don’t let them lie to you they all sell the same stuff I’ve seen salesmen state their panels are stronger than competitors which is not the case like i used to think care salesmen were scummy but oh boy they will do anything for their commission. honestly the system are very easy to understand and troubleshoot when you do come across issues as long as the system gets 240v its always going to run. microinverters do go out from time to time but a lot of the manufactures are really good about warranties. Get critter guard or some barrier around your panels too I’ve seen squirrels and pigeonswasn’t
In my country so many people have solar panels that the grid cant handle the amount of electricity being sent back on a very sunny day. In some neighbourhoods people even have to shut down their inverters to stop electricity being put to the grid because if they do put electricity on the grid, they will have to pay for it instead of get paid for it lolol. (Excuse me for my bad English)
Common misconception that solar cleans the air on the Wasatch Front. Our power is not generated in our air shed therefore solar has zero effect on our air quality. I love solar don’t get me wrong but they’re not helping our air quality. This may not be true in other locations but this is true along the Wasatch Front.
Don’t have any experience eith micro inverters integrated in solar pannels, but from maintanance point of view, seems like more things could go wrong than just using a regular one inverter. Otherwise, I wouldn’t worry too much about the production. Depends on the orientation of the power plant and how “good” the weather is.
Savings are definitely important, but many people, including myself; end up spending close to double the cost in a solid battery system, and the reason for going with solar is to go off-grid. When we went off-grid about 15 years ago now I think? It was more expensive, simply because you needed more panels. They are SO much more efficient and cheaper per watt output now! I’d say all told we sunk around 28k into our system at the time, but we’ve only had to run the propane generator twice ever during a long overcast period that was too cloudy for enough battery recovery over time. So, additional savings it will be paid off in another 4 years or so I guess, but the main point is that we have no worries. No more bills to the co-op, and no outages to wait on. To be fair: I will need to start replacing batteries before long. That’s an ongoing expense every 10 to 20 years – best to just buy a battery every couple years and keep it topped up for swap.
Good update, I love Utah (born and raised) but that air quality is no joke – I cough like a madman there and will never move back. The house prices are still crazy, in a 100 years I’m not even sure if it will inhabitable if it continues to be top ten in the world for pollution. Back to your point, solar is a great investment but I’m curious how much the install will be in the Midwest.
I’m not sure the “savings” makes sense to me. Those numbers are just the equivalent of how much he WOULD have paid for the electricity he generated, not the electricity he ACTUALLY used in that time. And as he pointed out, electricity he doesn’t use, goes back to the grid, which he gets paid for at 50% rate, so it’s not a 1-1 conversion of ‘kWh : kWh cost’. So the numbers he showed aren’t really showing the actual picture of how much money he ACTUALLY “saved”, or “generated”. For that, he’d have to show us his energy usage, including car charging WITH car usage. My mother in law got solar panels for her house, and this was kind of how they explained it to her “you’ll be saving $1500 a month”. But then she realized that her ACTUAL usage is not enough to justify it, and the “refund” from the Grid was not really enough to deduce that she’s actually in a big profitable situation. At BEST, she saved – out of her pre-solar electric bill of about $250 – maybe about $65 from it (because of the overnight lack, or the cloudy/rainy days). I’m not saying at all this is a scam. But some numbers I’ve seen on articles like these are not very accurate, or factual, and they give the impression that people will be “pocketing” $1300 a month, because you’re “generating” that much electricity. That’s just not the case.
I have 25 KW of solar at home. Ground mounts. Not hard to clear snow. I use a long extension pole with a soft-cloth window cleaner to clear snow. Soooo, this will be hard to say, but I’ll say it anyway. Solar power does NOT reduce much carbon in the atmosphere. There are days I can generate 150 KWH, and there are other days I generate 5 KWH. My utility (OPPD) has to step in when my solar can’t produce. They use fossil fuels and they have to maintain coal and gas plants for those cloudy days. When the sun is shining, the coal plants run under utilized, but still spewing CO2. All I’m doing is increasing “spinning reserve” of the coal plant. Perhaps if my utility switched to a gang of smaller (10 MW?) twin cycle gas plant generators then I could claim that solar or wind worked better, but as of today it doesn’t really help reduce CO2 by much. So much “greenwashing” information with solar and wind. I will now brace for responses.
Wish Goverment would install this on houses, transfer the electricity to the grid and give the owner a percentage off of their electric bill instead. It will reduce the massive investment burden from the owner and while using the unused space. Mass production can ensure the economic viability in this case too..
A simply heating system. like the one in the rear glass of cars can be useful in snow situation, and probably can sell more solar panels in snowy regions. So self dust cleaning optional in dusty regions and self heating optional in icy regions or both… and a shovel for the owner, when the warning siren start playing.
An investment in an index fund would likely return netter than 35K over 30 years. If you install solar strictly to have more money than without in 30 years, you would be better off purchasing your electricity from a supplier with slightly higher rates with all the energy produced being renewable energy and putting the money you would’ve spent in a solar panel setup into a zero cost index fund. I think the main reason for buying solar is to provide some level of energy independence. When combined with a power wall, you can live off grid for an extended period of time compared to power wall or generator alone.
smaller system here 5kw inverter looking at 900kw in the summer the 400kw in winter months which in Australia includes autumn and spring also at a total of 5 months of the year. While this is good an all, the real benefit here is that it’s being paired with fixed energy plans (3 years) until you break even. after spending far too long in Excel, I will break even in 2.5 years with 70% of that from the fixed rate and increasing electricity prices. my original estimate was longer(like 4 yrs ish) but was updated given ridiculous increases here in the AU. All of this is just a silly long way of mentioning that a small system paired with a fixed plan is very effective here and it would be really good if this happened elsewhere also as I don’t think energy prices have ever gone down before. this means that after the contract, you have the benefit of solar, cheaper bills incl the repayment, and the benefit afterwards. the seller benefits from a higher markup of the system and locks you in as a customer for 3 years. the company does loose out of the additional energy rates. though I’d imagine there isn’t much sympathy for that
State and Fed “tax” credits = nothing but taking money from taxpayers and paying it to companies who sell PV systems. AKA corporate welfare. Without the (welfare) tax credit the systems actually cost over $20,000 + ongoing maintenance. Meaning, they will never even break even, before the panels degrade and or fail. Anything GOV sponsored / mandated (EV and PV) = a complete disaster !
To summarize some stuff I’m seeing in the comments: 1. Your fuel isn’t free with an EV, it’s just charged at your house, and (depending how much your drive) averages to be about 20% less on a monthly average 2. Average cost to remove and reinstall solar panels (for a new roof) is $200-$350/panel nationally. SIDE NOTE HERE: Installing solar panels artificially Ave the roof by about 2-5 years via foot traffic, breaking the tar bond, etc.. 3. Average solar payoff is between 7-10 years. This depending on pitch, and if you have a southern facing plain 5. Is solar good for environment? That’s a debate. I choose to say they’re net-neutral on a large scale. However, my biased opinion is that they’re a small net-positive Conclusion: Solar isn’t for every home. EV’s aren’t for everyone. If you want it, decide why and weigh the costs/benefits. Remember: you don’t have to justify how you spend your money to anybody
As someone who is fighting their attic for cooling the house in the summer, I wonder if you can also review if your AC needs went down after installing the panels. Granted not every house is built as crappy as mine, and you might not have the data anymore, but that could have saved a few more $ in the summer months which will add up rather well after multiplying it by the long life of the panels.
I am not sure how you factor in the payback, or if it makes sense to only factor in the cost of electricity. Your Rivian uses electricity and it is cheaper than gas. If you factor in that the first few KW goes topping off the Rivian in the place of gas, I think you would see that the combination helps payback faster.
Hey Jerry, love the website. I recommend getting a energy storage system. They can be pricey, but worth it. All of the energy you don’t use will be stored at your house and you’ll is it at night or low production times instead of the grid. And grid would serve as a backup, or if there is a power outage and you have Little to no production, you can still run your house.
8000$ for 8kW WITH incentives. That’s insane. That’s now how much it should cost. What are you doing there in US And it doesn’t matter much if you have a record breaking summer because the limit of your system is 8kwh which it can reach without record breaking heat so it won’t produce more than that no matter how hot it is. The only things that matter are length of the day(which is why in summer there’s more production) and clear skys. I live in a desert area with lots of sun and temperatures reaching 50°C and that’s about the same electricity my solar panels produce as your 1st year production
Savings math isn’t quite right. The portion of your production that goes into the grid only gives you a 50% credit. Those kWh are only worth ~$0.05/kWh. The total money saved is not simply kWh produced times ~$0.010/kWh. Your actual saving is somewhere in between the numbers shown here and 50%. Likely closer to 50% during the summer and closer to 100% in the winter. ~75% of the annual $1300, so roughly $1000.
Here in south Africa we have something called loadshedding wich means that sometimes we don’t have hower for 4 hours and then have power for 2 hours ect, with the current rand to dollar solar costs a fortune here and companies take advantage of the fact that many south Africans need solar or backup systems to run a business. Our country also has no insensitives for solar except if you comply perfectly with their requirements (only about 700 dollars) most of wich wont even cover the powergrid activation side of things. So in short solar here is a necessity but costs a fortune.
Unfortunately the incentives now are vastly offset by bloated/inflated installation costs. Cost of the components are not the issue – panels and batteries have never been cheaper. The incentives are mostly to drum up solar business rather than actually saving/benefiting the consumer. Code changes and state/local rules now prohibit most from legally being able to DIY
Around the 3:50 min mark you “wish there was some kind of scientist to explain….” Head Slap ! that’s what a world of scientists have been warning about for decades – Global warming/Climate Change due to all that CO2 we humans put in the air !!! That’s why I’m glad you’re doing a fairly good job of reducing CO2 output from your life. TKS for the DIY info – of course that’s for you too !
I know that some solar panel setups (unsure if all) have some kind of cooling mechanism to them so that they’re not a fire hazard come summer time, would it be possible for you to more or less swap to heating them during winter to melt away the snow and at least have them taking in as much sun as possible through the clouds? Or would that not be possible with your set up?
Hi Jerry, or i’ll leave this open for anyone to answer, we have freqent power cuts in our house sometimes for hours and we have almost 3 acs not all of them running together, but would solar panel be enough to drive these approx. 5200w acs? or is it not feasible? we are looking to install the solar panels about the size of your roof setup. This may seem like a lame question, I know the obvious answer is no, but unfortunately there is little to no data available online when i search about this .
I took the passive approach and have trees surrounding most of my house and spend about $1.4k/yr from both gas (to heat in winter) and electricity keep the house (2-story) cool in the summer (I’m on the edge of the desert by the way in S. California). I considered solar (ground installation), but nowadays solar providers only do roof installations which is a no go in my case. Even when the temps hit over 100 in the summer my AC usually doesn’t come on until mid-afternoon and my house unlike many in my region has decent insulation (another way to save). In the end I think passive approach was a better way (plant more trees) and insulate.
If I may ask, what are the other tangible benefits besides saving on your bills ? I just installed so I’m looking a few times a day at those curves and it is also an eyeopener towards consumption. I guess if you do that for 3 years you would have a clear picture if for example transitioning to electric heating or cooking or maybe indoor food growing makes sense ?
Your December production from those panels is slightly better than what we got from 18,5kW system. Around 65 degree latitude here. In December sun is something you read in fantasy books. Making roughly Same amount as December in one good or two days lowsy days in summer. Too bad the electricity price managed to go negative somehow, so I am paying to the grid sometimes.
You aren’t doing too bad. I build utility-scale solar and the target ROI is usually 8 years for the big boys (lease agreements with the land owners that usually stand for 25-30 years). 10-12 years is the target for homeowners, but I’d expect yours to be lower because of your advanced knowledge & skills + sweat equity.
You might want to have made the argument that due to all the additional precipitation. Your solar panels would be cleaner longer. And that increase in efficiency might offset the inefficiency of the clouds that produce the precipitation. But I guess that answer is a big. No. Then you may wish to consider some alternatives. Is it possible to return those.?